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Old 02-08-2017, 08:59   #151
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Originally Posted by mavros View Post
I have many times said about the necessity of having a solid Neuer back up in order to avoid humiliations like this one.

I have also mentioned the importance of having one more fast CD in our roster alongside Boateng.
I mean Sule is a great talend but pairing him with anyone except Boa against a strong team with fast attackers would have the same bad result for us.

Third main factor is the need of having a real DM like Javi was and not a dl playmaker like Thiago is. With the current situation, Vidal or Javi must play that role.

100% agreed

The most important thing is playing with a destroyer , someone like 2013 Javi or like Casemiro in our midfield

and yeah I agree against fast attackers playing for a counter attacking team , we need Boateng as CB (or maybe Alaba just like our match against Atletico at Home last season)
A pair of Hummels/Sule/Javi against fast attackers won't do the job
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:51   #152
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100% agreed

The most important thing is playing with a destroyer , someone like 2013 Javi or like Casemiro in our midfield

and yeah I agree against fast attackers playing for a counter attacking team , we need Boateng as CB (or maybe Alaba just like our match against Atletico at Home last season)
A pair of Hummels/Sule/Javi against fast attackers won't do the job
Mea, stop this revisionism. I expet better of you, you were actually HERE in 2012! Luiz Gustavo is a destroyer. Javi Martinez is not - he can do a lot more than merely destroy. How many times did we fight that battle over and over and over ?

Regardless, I agree with your broader point - Martinez to midfield please!
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:57   #153
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Mea, stop this revisionism. I expet better of you, you were actually HERE in 2012! Luiz Gustavo is a destroyer. Javi Martinez is not - he can do a lot more than merely destroy. How many times did we fight that battle over and over and over ?

Regardless, I agree with your broader point - Martinez to midfield please!
Tbh , I don't understand what is your definition of "destroyer"

A destroyer for me is a player who does the dirty job and cuts the ball from the opponents; he is like a shield for the defensive line


Javi can do a lot more than destroy and I totally agree
And so does Vidal

When I use the word "destroyer" I mean this
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:13   #154
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Tbh , I don't understand what is your definition of "destroyer"

A destroyer for me is a player who does the dirty job and cuts the ball from the opponents; he is like a shield for the defensive line


Javi can do a lot more than destroy and I totally agree
And so does Vidal

When I use the word "destroyer" I mean this
We're on the same page

Destroyer to me means someone who does one thing and one thing only - destroys enemy attacks. Vidal is a perfect example of someone who ISN'T a destroyer because he's so so so much more than that. He's just not a beast in defense, but also in attack and midfield. The reason I take this exclusive definition of "destroyer" is simply because of all of the heated arguments we've had here (as well as those I've seen on reddit) over the years. Destroyer is about as "exclusive" a term as "poacher" is to me. When you say someone is a poacher, you're talking about Inzaghi/Gomez players, not Lewandowski, no matter how good Lewandowski may be as scoring simple tap-ins too. Same with "destroyer." We're talking Gustavo/Tymoshcuk.

I will say that Martinez is the closet player we HAVE to a destroyer, but I feel that term is so ironically non-descriptive for him, considering how he's here strictly because he brought more to the game than merely being a pure destroyer in the first place. If it weren't for his variety and capacity to be more than a tackler, he'd never have been our record signing - and we'd never have won the CL.

Last edited by Grey; 02-08-2017 at 10:17.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:22   #155
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When you say someone is a poacher, you're talking about Inzaghi/Gomez players, not Lewandowski, no matter how good Lewandowski may be as scoring simple tap-ins too. Same with "destroyer." We're talking Gustavo/Tymoshcuk.

ok then , I now understand your point

I describe Gustavo as a pure destroyer while Javi as a destroyer (since he has other qualities)

Like you said we are on the same page but use different words
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Old 02-08-2017, 14:21   #156
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it's quite clear that lewandowski muller and james playing at the same time isn't the best idea. it's over overabundance of attacking players who lack pace, can't run with the ball and can't dribble. not to mention, muller's first touch is abysmal.

which means it's easy to defend against these types of players, especially if they are no where near the opposition's box, where they can come to life and do something.

so essentially, by having too many attacking-players who can't beat defenders by either pace or skill, makes it easy for opposite defenders to defend against them as long as they are no where near the goal or the box, thus making it possible to double down or even triple down on our skilled attackers and prevent/make it harder for them to either dribble or cross to the box. and in the case of yesterday's game, it was ribery who got marked by multiple defenders.

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Old 02-08-2017, 14:36   #157
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We are playing like Peps Bayern but without the pressing. Thats like driving a Ferrari but without the engine.

Its disaster. We pass the ball horizontaly, and when we lose it we press the oponent with 2 players and all the others just stand and watch. Its shambles. Its like no one knows what to do.

You can bring Neymar but we will stil have the same problem. Our organisation is bad and if thats the case it does not matter how quick or gifted players you have. They are suffocating one another because they stand in each others way because no one knows exactly what to do and what are his duties.

Thats the part that is worying for me. And thats the part which is for the Coach to solve it and quick. We do not have problem with the lack of pace or talent, we have problem with our organisation both deffensively and offensively. Its a mess right now.
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Old 02-08-2017, 15:00   #158
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We are playing like Peps Bayern but without the pressing. Thats like driving a Ferrari but without the engine.

Its disaster. We pass the ball horizontaly, and when we lose it we press the oponent with 2 players and all the others just stand and watch. Its shambles. Its like no one knows what to do.

You can bring Neymar but we will stil have the same problem. Our organisation is bad and if thats the case it does not matter how quick or gifted players you have. They are suffocating one another because they stand in each others way because no one knows exactly what to do and what are his duties.

Thats the part that is worying for me. And thats the part which is for the Coach to solve it and quick. We do not have problem with the lack of pace or talent, we have problem with our organisation both deffensively and offensively. Its a mess right now.
I agree with everything you said.

Unfortunately it takes a coach that actually know what he's doing to fix these problems and we are stuck with a senile gum chewer...
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Old 02-08-2017, 15:05   #159
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I'm not sure if I should watch Bayern vs Napoli

I want to see both Rudy & Sule but I'm afraid to watch because I will probably see a horrible display
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Old 02-08-2017, 15:05   #160
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I agree with everything you said.

Unfortunately it takes a coach that actually know what he's doing to fix these problems and we are stuck with a senile gum chewer...
And thats even more strange for me. I mean football is not a rocket science. And Carlo is not someone who started doing this yesterday. He has tons of experience AND succes. Its beyond my comprehension that he cant fix this, that he does not get whats wrong here. He has seen to much to be otherwise.

Its a fact that last year, when it mattered we played top both tacticaly and mentaly, we were running on all cylindars. But there were a lot of other games when it did not matter that much and we were mediocre. So i guess its a mentality thing with him. He has this concept that the team must reach its potential in the right moment unlike Pep who was fighting for every game like its the last.

That was the case yesterday. The players simple did not give a single fuck for the game. They were just waiting for it to end.
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Old 02-08-2017, 15:10   #161
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And thats even more strange for me. I mean football is not a rocket science. And Carlo is not someone who started doing this yesterday. He has tons of experience AND succes. Its beyond my comprehension that he cant fix this, that he does not get whats wrong here. He has seen to much to be otherwise.

Its a fact that last year, when it mattered we played top both tacticaly and mentaly, we were running on all cylindars. But there were a lot of other games when it did not matter that much and we were mediocre. So i guess its a mentality thing with him. He has this concept that the team must reach its potential in the right moment unlike Pep who was fighting for every game like its the last.

That was the case yesterday. The players simple did not give a single fuck for the game. They were just waiting for it to end.
No, it's not a fact. We played good for barely a month and that got us 3 great displays 2 against our favorite punching bag in Europe, the other against BvB. Let's not kid ourselves and say we were setting the world on fire with epic displays, because that wasn't the case at all.

And yes I pretty much doubt CA can fix this or can see what's wrong. The problems we currently have we already had at the begining of last season. If he haven't fixed shit in over a year, what makes you think he'll fix it now ?
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Old 02-08-2017, 15:37   #162
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No, it's not a fact. We played good for barely a month and that got us 3 great displays 2 against our favorite punching bag in Europe, the other against BvB. Let's not kid ourselves and say we were setting the world on fire with epic displays, because that wasn't the case at all.

And yes I pretty much doubt CA can fix this or can see what's wrong. The problems we currently have we already had at the begining of last season. If he haven't fixed shit in over a year, what makes you think he'll fix it now ?
No i was not saying that we were setting the world on fire last year with our displays...far from it. I was just saying that when it mattered the most we were there with our performances, but those were few games yes.
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